I am trying to confirm this but havent gotten my hands on an Isuzu bellhousing yet.

I might be getting my hands on one so we might know within a week or so...

The bell housing on the 3 speed is absolutely removable.  I know this from experience, I broke a corner off of one and had to replace it which actually was a good thing otherwise I'd have had to buy a whole new transmission instead of just spending 30 bucks on a used bell housing.  

BTW the big o-ring between the bell housing and the transmission is a pain in the butt to install so when you get ready to put yours back together be forewarned.  It slips off a lot and you obviously want it to stay where it's supposed to be or you'll be leaking ATF like there's no tomorrow.

Zooky, if you get your hands on an Isuzu bell housing, try to verify that all the fluid passages machined into the tranny side of it are the same as the three speed version's fluid passages. That is in my opinion the bigger uncertainty between the two. I'd be very surprised if the bolts that attach the bellhousing to the tranny don't match up.  Honestly, that's the only real hurdle I see with swapping it.  

GM used/uses this tranny in a bunch of stuff so it's pretty adaptable which is why I'd all but guarantee that different bell housings will bolt up.  It's got to be much cheaper to manufacture different bellhousings than it is to manufacture different xmission casings I would expect.  Chalk that sort of manufacturing change at GM up to competing with Japan in fact.  That said, they still don't have anything on the old Datsun/Nissan stuff in the way of overall interchangability between models.  

Some examples of stuff it's used in are the Cadillac Catera, Isuzus, Opels (in europe although that's basically the same car as the Catera).  They also sell it to BMW and it ended up in the Z3 roadster and some 3 series models.  It's pretty early on at this stage, but if you're familiar with the Megasquirt fuel injection ECU project, there's an offshoot of it called the Megashift.  Might be a possibility anyway.  

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**continued from above**

What I was thinking is that since we're not necessarily concerned with a cushy ride, the control aspect of an automatic isn't that complex compared to an engine's ECU.  Basically as in a non electronic automatic, the shift points are determined by RPM and the pressure created.  With some pressure transducers and a bit of work, it might not be all that tough to fool a 4L30E into working like a non electronic version.  An Isuzu factory manual which lists the shift points etc and the associated flow charts for the logic behind the shift control might be a good start, I'm going to see if I can get any of this from the Haynes book next time I'm at the auto parts store.  (probably a long shot since Haynes and Chilton suck with regard to that sort of info typically).  Wish I knew someone that worked at an Isuzu Dealership that would let me take a look at the factory book.  Worst case there's an Isuzu/Chevy dealer 2 miles up the road from me, asking em might even be enough unless they're complete weenies. (probably a safe bet expecting them to be weenies as they are a stealer er dealership).  Not a whole lot of liability involved in letting me look at a tech pub though so maybe I'll luck out.

Anyway, the only problem I see with the 60 degree v6 by itself with the 3 speed vs the 4 is that I'm not sure running around at 4000 rpm all day like you would be on the freeway with the 3 speed is what the engine is designed for.  If you're going to go this route then definitely plan on building it up right and doing a very good internal balance and such with the help of a competent machine shop.  

That's primarily why I was suggesting possibly putting it in with the 4 speed and T-case as a package.  One other option with the 4 speed *might* be to use the t-case from a tracker/kick with the 4 speed and the v6.  Not sure it would just bolt up but it might be worth looking into at least.  If the 4L30 is so universal, it would make sense they would keep stuff like the rear output and bolt pattern standardized as well.  Mostly depends on whether or not they changed this between the 3L30 and the 4L30.  

I'm also trying to verify if the 4L30 in the first Gen Rodeos is possibly a standalone controller rather than integrated with the engine's ECU. If anybody knows for sure chime in here.   If it is standalone,  swapping it would be easy and provided the Tracker/kick T-case bolts up it would be more or less a bolt in deal.   (Also assuming that the fluid passages are the same between the Rodeo  bell housing and the tracker/kick bellhousing).  

I guess the main reason I'm kinda stuck on using the 4L30 from the rodeo is because the 1st and 2nd gears are much better suited to a truck in the 4L30 on the Rodeo.  Since the 3L30 is essentially the same as the 4L30 other than the addition of the overdrive, it might also be possible to swap the first three gears into a Tracker/Kick 3 speed for some better low end gearing.  3rd gear is 1:1 like in the tracker/kick, and it probably would just involve swapping in the planetary set from the 4L30.  Wouldn't solve my highway driving RPM issue but it would make for better offroading if nothing else.

Honestly I like the idea of the V6 with the 4 speed and the V6's ECU/Tranny controller with the Tracker/Kick t-case bolted on the back if it can be bolted on the best of all these Frankenstein approaches.  Should work OK since the only thing you'd have to maybe work some wiring magic on is fooling the electronic shifter into thinking it's permanently disengaged.  Also if you have an older Tracker/Kick, putting an engine out of a newer Rodeo (even if just a year newer) generally is enough to get you around emissions related headaches in most states.

If the t-case is the full size GM one that by itself might open a few options in terms of parts availability and upgrades other than it's kinda on the large side.

Oh and if anyone's considering contacting the GM powertrain guys via email from their website, don't waste too much time, I tried it a year or so ago and the best response I could get was a form letter email back from em.

If on the other hand you have some connections that work there, give em a nudge for us collectively.

Anyhow, enough rambling for one post, I'm stuck here alone working on Christmas so what else am I gonna do today provided nothing breaks?   Gotta love the computer babysitting job I have, if nothing breaks it's like being a fireman without any fires to put out.  (Sure there's a lot less in the way of on the job risk, and it's not as big of a hit with the chicks, but I'm married anyway so who cares.)

so my standard bellhousing can be replaced for a gm 2.8 right?  whatabout the input shaft?  how would that bearing work?

I believe the manual transmission bell housings are part of the main housing casting, it's just on the auto's that it's detachable.  

I know all the information I've been able to find shows the same dimensions for the torque converter listed for both the 3 and 4 speed L30's.  Again to keep manufacturing costs low, the more parts that are common, the cheaper it is to make it in mass production.  Input for the Torque converter is most likely the same between the 3 and 4 speed versions.   I've been talking to an Isuzu guy here in town, he thinks the early 4 speed versions in the first gen Amigos/Rodeos have a standalone transmission computer.  This would make swapping one in pretty easy.   Won't be able to check on that till next week at the earliest though.

Ahh the bell is the front of the trans too, I
thought it was just bolted onto the front of
the trans.

Big rubber O ring huh, that's probably where my
trans is leaking from, always has had a leak, not
bad, just enough to need a quart of fluid about
once a month or so. Problem is you got to pull
the motor or trans to fix it  , good thing fluid
is not too expensive.

The Auto trans is Made In France, by GM
The Man trans is a Japanies unit, built by

So no swap for the JS and JX models unless they
had an auto trans, how about GEO models, what
were the reasons they came with auto trans

This is good link stuff, keep it going

damnit.  I really wanted a 200 hp 3.8,

ok, who has access to a wrecking yard? I need to know how long my drivetrain is compared to a toy or other import 4x4.  I really like the 22re engines.  Which other trucks have aluminum blocks?

Don't get me wrong, I'd love a V6 with a 5 speed.  I guess that limits you to the GV engine or you could swap an Isuzu 5 speed that's got the V6 bellhousing in along with the GM V6.  

That might not be a bad way to go anyway.  It's just the fact that you run into the heavy and big t-case if you did that.  Then again with the V6 who cares if you have a heavier t-case anyway if it'll fit reasonably well.  

You might even be able to run the 2.4/2.6 liter 4 cyl from an Isuzu.  Not sure if it fits easily but considering it also comes from an IFS truck with the passenger side drop it might be pretty easy.  It would certainly make for an improvement over the 1.6. Considering it's normally used to drag a 4000lb truck around instead of a 2500lb truck.  I would guess there's much lower demand for that engine compared to a Toyota 22R so you could probably get one dirt cheap too.

Not sure which ones have alloy blocks, I believe the current DOHC Isuzu V6's are but they're heavy anyway with the extra machinery from being a DOHC V6.

Wildgoody,

On the Trackers there's either the base or the LSi model.  The LSi Just has a split rear seat, more plastic trim inside that covers stuff like the A and B pillars completely instead of being an insert surrounded by painted metal.  The inside panel on the doors also covers the whole thing instead of being an inset piece surrounded by metal.  It also has the front seats with the separate headrest pieces.  Nothing too much fancier all in all though.  The auto's definitely available on the LSi, but I think it was available on the base model too.

The manual transmission is probably made by a company like Aisin or Hitachi.  Hitachi makes a ton of parts like differentials that are used in Nissans and Subarus among others.  Toyota uses someone else for transmissions but I can't think of who it is offhand.

  So is the trans. on my 2001 swap a 4L30? Does anyone make shift improver kits or is it completely controlled by the ECM? It has the normal or power mode switch,which makes it shift a little harder,but i would like to raise the shift points at least 1000 rpms.

I am working with an Isuzu guy over on POR to figure out these 4L30/3L30 issues. The bellhousing issue benefits us, what I (may have) found that benefits them is that the tailhousing T-case adapter from the Tracker automatic may bolt onto the Isuzu 4L30. This would allow them to use OTT's adapters to allow them to have dual T-cases or allow them to bolt in a toyota T-case and have all the Toyota gearing options. Big bonus for them. If you were to put the Isuzu drivetrain in your rig, that would be a way to get rid of the huge Isuzu T-case and get some gearing options. There is a thread over on Pirate in the Isuzu section.

So is the trans. on my 2001 swap a 4L30? Does anyone make shift improver kits or is it completely controlled by the ECM? It has the normal or power mode switch,which makes it shift a little harder,but i would like to raise the shift points at least 1000 rpms.

If you are talking about a 4-spd auto from the 2001 Vit/GV/XL7. it's not a GM tranny.  It's a AISIN Warner tranny.  Tranny is electronicall controlled, including the troque coverter lock-up.  All the power/normal switch does is change the shift points.  I assume that could be reprogrammed.

  Thats what i thought,i've been looking for an easy way to raise the shift points for 1-2 and 2-3 shifts. If it's electronically operated by the ecm reading the speed sensor a person should be able to fool the ecm into thinking it's reading a lower speed and holding the shift longer? Like maybe a inline resistor with the speed sensor wire to the ecm? Does anyone know of any place that reprograms our ecm's?

Zooky, The guy I was talking to with the Isuzu said someone's asking a bunch of 4L30 questions on POR, guess he meant you it sounds like.  (he's also looking at swapping a 4.9 liter caddy v8 into his truck with a 4L60 which sounds fun.)

Oh I'm pretty sure Aisin-Warner is who makes the Toyota trannies too now that Yankee Tim mentions it.   Jatco makes the Nissan and Mitsubishi ones, not sure on Subaru, Honda I believe makes their own stuff for the most part.  

Really you should probably be happy with the Aisin-Warner slushbox, generally any Japanese made auto tranny is better than any American one.  (so a transmission guy told me anyway) but if you do use an American one then GM automatics are the best among those.

As far as reprogramming the controller, it might be possible, depends on whether it uses flash or is actual ROM code.  It would require someone to facilitate a way to dump the contents of the existing code and then reverse engineer it.  It's not unheard of but probably would be time consuming to the point of not being economically feasable.

The easier way would be to make a piggyback or standalone box that gives the tranny the input it's expecting (such as to shift or lock the Torque converter) when you want it to instead of when it normally would.  

It would have to use some sensors for input, I'd guess either road speed or the driveshaft RPM, engine rpm, engine vacuum, the current gear the transmission is in, the gear that the selector is in (to override an upshift if you've got it in 2 or 3 for instance).  

The easiest way is to just fool the factory computer by way of altering the input it receives from the sensors.  You could encounter problems here depending on the level of integration between the stock Engine ECU and the Transmission portion of it such as a shared Engine RPM sensor for instance or something coded into the ECU.

Using something to analyze this data and remap everything probably wouldn't be all that tough especially compared to something like the actual engine management system for the EFI.

Basically you're looking at something that only needs to make 3 or 4 actual output signals.  Shift up, shift down, stay in the gear it's in, and lock/unlock the torque converter.  Something like an inline resistor within the controller or on one of the input signals ought to change when the output signals are sent but it would take some experimenting with to get it all the way dialed in.

I wonder if the electronically controlled Autos have a mechanical only limp mode much like many EFI systems have that could be exploited.  Might not have the ideal shift points but would work like they used to work.  Something to consider and investigate definitely.  Might not actually be there though since chances are with the engine  ECU and Tranny ECU integrated, if the tranny part craps out it means the whole thing craps out.

Zooky, The guy I was talking to with the Isuzu said someone's asking a bunch of 4L30 questions on POR, guess he meant you it sounds like.  

yep, sounds like me
There are two different discussions going on here. One about using the Isuzu trans, and the other using an Isuzu bellhousing. I am interested in the bellhousing to keep it as simple as possible. I have a 4L30 overhaul manual and there is a 'limp mode' and it shows the Trooper electrical inputs. You should pick it up, its like $15 and has some good info. Its at work so I cant take a look at it now.