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Distributor Upgrade

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xoloski

Distributor Upgrade
« on: September 04, 2009, 06:58:29 AM »
I have a 1991 Samurai with throttle body and the type of electronic ignition that has a three wire pigtail coming out of the distributor and no vacuum advance.
I get no spark at all.
I think the distributor module is shot and don't really want to spend $150+ for a module.

What is the recommended aftermarket upgrade for this type of Samurai?
or
Where can I get a distributor at a reasonable price?
or
How can I test mine to be sure it is the distributor?
Thanks,
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Offline sammypro.com

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Re: Distributor Upgrade
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2009, 08:21:01 AM »
If you find some let me know!!!!! Seems to be a conspiracy on these things. My suppliers are out, and the only option ive found is $400+ from the dealer. NAPA, SCHUCKS, COSTLESS..are all not doin the beck arnley any more. Everybody has part numbers but no part ???
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Offline ebewley

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Re: Distributor Upgrade
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2009, 08:56:04 AM »
Quote from: sammypro.com on September 04, 2009, 08:21:01 AM
If you find some let me know!!!!! Seems to be a conspiracy on these things. My suppliers are out, and the only option ive found is $400+ from the dealer. NAPA, SCHUCKS, COSTLESS..are all not doin the beck arnley any more. Everybody has part numbers but no part ???

Have you tried the 1.6 8-valve dizzy part numbers?

Hawk Strictly Suzuki may have some?

Good luck, Eric
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xoloski

Re: Distributor Upgrade
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2009, 07:19:17 AM »
Has anybody had success using a Pertronix system?
They don't list any specifically for Samurai but I thought I'd contact the factory engineers and see what they recommend.
Maybe convince them that they should meet the Suzuki demand.
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Offline shackwrrr

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Re: Distributor Upgrade
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2009, 07:25:39 AM »
if its the ignitor thats bad you can Im preatty sure use a gm HEI module to replace it. All it is a high speed set of electronic points. basically a solid state relay.
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Offline Rhinoman

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Re: Distributor Upgrade
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2009, 02:29:16 PM »
Doesn't the GM HEI set up advance built in?
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2000 Vitara 1.6, 3+3 Lift, 33"MTs, 5:83s, LWB brakes, Winch, Snorkel, Safari Rack
1986 SJ413K PickUp, 1.6L conversion.

OBD1 - Full diagnostics on a PC/Laptop: http://www.rhinopower.org
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Offline shackwrrr

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Re: Distributor Upgrade
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2009, 05:15:21 PM »
no it doesent. I dont know how the computer sends the signal to the ignitor. On the diagram it shows that it has an ign driver output and an ign signal (input??) going from the computer to the ignitor.

The gm 4 pin usually uses the dizzy AC signal and converts it to a sine then uses the sine to turn on and off the transistor.

I wish I had my computerized engine control systems book still. It has an awsome diagram of a gm 7 pin. The 7 pin is what would work best. It is setup to receive signal from the computer instead of the distributor. It also has a tach signal output.

I dont know what the computer wants to see at the ign signal would it just be the tach signal or is it different

Also I dont know what kind of signal the stock ignitor uses from the ign output of the computer.

Dose the service manual have an internal diagram to the ignitor? That would be awsome if it did
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Offline mtntoy

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Re: Distributor Upgrade
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2009, 06:48:20 PM »
Did you check your ECM?  If it is bad, you won't have a spark.  The only way I know of to check it is to plug in a known working ECM.
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Offline captchee

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Re: Distributor Upgrade
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2009, 07:30:44 PM »
« Last Edit: September 07, 2009, 07:32:22 PM by captchee »
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Offline captchee

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Re: Distributor Upgrade
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2009, 03:44:10 PM »
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Offline Rhinoman

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Re: Distributor Upgrade
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2009, 02:13:04 PM »
Quote from: captchee on September 08, 2009, 03:44:10 PM
In the main time , what we need to know is  what other  manufactures used the same ECM # as Suzuki .
 If Isuzu is one of them  then the ECM will read and send the same info . As such  it maybe a simple  application of swapping out rotor heads  to get  an easier and CHEEPER  system .

Suzuki use three different ECU manufacturers and over 200 different ECUs for the Track/Kick range around the world. They are all model specific, some are generic to a range and use configuration resistors to set the exact model. MT and AT models have different programming.
Now if you are just swapping the ignitor then that shouldn't be too much of a problem, they generally take a logic level signal from the ECU. The output is just an open collector darlington pair or IGBT, if you're driving the original coil then the dwell period should be OK, if you're driving a different coil then its anyone's guess. Not very many of the early Zuk ECUs can be reprogrammed.
I would be interested to see inside an Izuzu ECU but it won't be the same as a Zuk but theres a possibility it could be adapted.

I was going to post and suggest that you disconnected the ignitor and brought the wires out from the VR sensor to an external ignitor from a Track/Kick. Then I remembered that you didn't get a carb model over there.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2009, 02:17:02 PM by Rhinoman »
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2000 Vitara 1.6, 3+3 Lift, 33"MTs, 5:83s, LWB brakes, Winch, Snorkel, Safari Rack
1986 SJ413K PickUp, 1.6L conversion.

OBD1 - Full diagnostics on a PC/Laptop: http://www.rhinopower.org
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Offline captchee

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Re: Distributor Upgrade
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2009, 06:18:37 PM »
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Offline captchee

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Re: Distributor Upgrade
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2009, 08:05:38 PM »
 inf act , thinking alittle more on this . one could TBI a  carb'ed  suzuki engine fairly easly without  swaping heads .
 here is a link that  some might find useful . its what i did to  FI my none FI scout .
 granted its  going to use a diffrent TBI and a diffrent  distrib . but with alittle work it should work for suzuki the same way  i would think
 might be something the sami guys have not thought about

http://www.justih.org/Binder-Bench/showthread.php?t=6489

http://www.justih.org/Binder-Bench/showthread.php?t=1025
« Last Edit: September 09, 2009, 08:11:54 PM by captchee »
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Offline Rhinoman

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Re: Distributor Upgrade
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2009, 07:01:14 AM »
Quote from: captchee on September 09, 2009, 06:18:37 PM
I would seriously doubt the  basic  design is Suzuki  or for that mater the  accumulation of parts , strictly made and designed by Suzuki . What im getting at is im sure the   Suzuki subs such work out to another company  who also uses some semblance of the same   basic information exchange for  other companies they supply.


As I said above, Suzuki use three different manufacturers, specifically DSM, Denso and Hitachi. There are similarities between the ECUs and other ECUs but none are interchangeable without a good deal of reprogramming. Different manufacturers use different sensors and drivers but each system is specifically designed for each model. There is some interchangeability of sensors but its not like the old GM ECUs or even the Bosch designs. I've spent a lot of time looking at Suzuki ECUs, I even designed my own replacement, I didn't market it because its just impossible to produce a single drop in replacement because of all the variations.

Back to the Samurai, you need to determine which part has failed. If its an igniter then you may be able to use one off a different model. If you have a three wire dizzy then you have a Hall Effect Sensor and an early Track/kick dizzy could be used instead if you fit the 90 degree drive from the Track/Kick also. Posting some pictures would help.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2009, 07:08:03 AM by Rhinoman »
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2000 Vitara 1.6, 3+3 Lift, 33"MTs, 5:83s, LWB brakes, Winch, Snorkel, Safari Rack
1986 SJ413K PickUp, 1.6L conversion.

OBD1 - Full diagnostics on a PC/Laptop: http://www.rhinopower.org
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