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bad ECM? no spark

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ricsrx

bad ECM? no spark
« on: January 23, 2008, 01:58:35 PM »
all of my load out puts from my ECM were chattering when the key was turned on, the motor would cranke but no fire- no spark,I found that when I unpluged the Idle air control valve my relay chatering went away.
still no fire, no spark at plugs, 12v  on the blk/wht wire to the coil, 12v on the brn/wht wire to the coil and to the igniter, no voltage on the orange wire to the igniter, what direction does the current flow,
12v on the blu/blk wire to the distributor. checked out the coil and igniter as per the Hanes manual. all checked out good, i noticed that the check engine light does not come on, acording to the print it has 12v going to it at all times and the ECM provides the ground, I have no ground comming from the ECM on the vilot /yellow wire-----Bad ECM?
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Offline Reddog1

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Re: bad ECM? no spark
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2008, 04:16:27 PM »
Maybe I over looked it, but what year is the Sami?

If it is a '90 thru '95, check this Thread:       EFI-Coil/Igniter, 91 Sammi

I just went through what you age describing. I have a Coil ($100) on order. I used the Factory Manual, for all checks, and I did do them all. It said the Coil (and everything else) was good. I had a Code 12 from the ECU. I put my coil on another EFI '90, and it would not start.

Wayne
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Offline ack

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Re: bad ECM? no spark
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2008, 01:46:08 PM »
You don't indicate if you have a Samurai or a TracKick, so I will give you the Samurai diagnosis.

Has your fuel gage stopped working?  If so, check the fusebox under the dash for a blown fuse.  I think it is the one labelled Ign on the cover.  Go to Ack's FAQ (see link in signature, below) and do a search for diagram.  Select the link to the Generic Samurai vehicle wiring diagram and print it.  It's big so you probably will need to print it then tape the pages together to form a complete diagram.

Start by tracing out the circuit that has the fuel sender on it.  That is the circuit that is protected by the ignition fuse.

The long version of the diagnosis is to unplug everything on that circuit then - after installing a good fuse - re-plug them in one at a time and then try to start the engine.  When you plug in the device that causes the fuse to blow, you found the culprit.

The short version is to unplug only the distributor and try starting the engine.  If the fuse does not blow, you have a bad ignitor! 

This is what happened to my Samurai recently.  Unfortunately they want over $200 bucks for a new ignitor!  I went to the junkyard and picked up an entire distributor for 25 bucks, slapped it in and the problem went away!  Just be careful and mark the position of the rotor and the adjuster bolt before removing your old distributor!  Install the "new" distributor - it may take several tries to get it to match the old distributor's alignment - replace the fuse and start her up!

« Last Edit: January 24, 2008, 01:49:53 PM by ack »
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Ack

'88 Samurai, '88.5 Samurai TT, '11 Ford Transit Connect XLT
Ack's FAQ  http://www.acksfaq.com
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ricsrx

Re: bad ECM? no spark
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2008, 02:04:22 PM »
sorry, its a 91 sidekick, I am not getting the check engine light at all, I have 12v one side but no ground on the other, unable to pull any codes. at this point i have to start thowing parts at it , I dont like it
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Offline Reddog1

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Re: bad ECM? no spark
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2008, 09:00:00 PM »
ack - I am relitively new at the Zuki, but the Igniter is not in the Distributor. It is on the firewall, behind the coil.


Wayne
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'91 EFI, DD, Hardtop, A/C, Warn 8000 winch, 100 AMP Alt, Toy Celica P/S, TT YJ SPOA M/L, DT 8000 shocks, TT Knuckle Over Steering, Mighty Kong, 4:1 TC, Evil Twins, TT Full Skid, Diff Guards, Fuel Tank Skid, Sliders, Anti-Wrap Bar w/Axle Truss, Panhard Bar, Cooper SST - 30x9.5x15 , 8"x 2-1/2" BS wheels Maxima rear Disc w/ebrake, rear locker
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Offline ack

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Re: bad ECM? no spark
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2008, 05:37:36 AM »
Wayne:

I realize that sometimes the pics on parts website don't always jive with the product, but this is what is identified by RockAuto.com as the Ignitor Module on a 1988 Suzuki Samurai:



It also happens to be the electrical component that I replaced (not some grease monkey with a bassboat payment to make) in order to get my 1988 Samurai running again.

...but we are getting off-topic here.

ricsrx:

Go to http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/index.php?board=12.0 and PM surly with your problem.  He repairs ECMs and can possibly fix yours if that is the problem.

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Ack

'88 Samurai, '88.5 Samurai TT, '11 Ford Transit Connect XLT
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Offline Rhinoman

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Re: bad ECM? no spark
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2008, 08:56:42 AM »
Quote from: Reddog1 on January 23, 2008, 04:16:27 PM
I had a Code 12 from the ECU. I put my coil on another EFI '90, and it would not start.

Wayne

The diagnostic codes are rather limited, I don't think that there is one for the coil. If you get a code 12 then its wothwhile going through the list of codes to see what isn't tested.
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Offline Reddog1

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Re: bad ECM? no spark
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2008, 09:33:59 AM »
Rhinoman - Thanks, that is what I did. What I encountered was I testing the coil,  as in stated in the Suzuki Manual. Tested it several times, and had an electronics friend test it also. As per the manual, it was OK.

The CAS (Crank Angle Sensor  or coil distr pickup) and the Igniter also check OK. I still had no spark from the coil. As I understand, a bad CAS should show a Code 42, I do not think there is a Code for the Igniter or Coil.

I installed both the igniter and coil on a running vehicle. It would not start, using my coil and would using my Igniter.

The point is, I cannot understand why the Manual test said the coil was OK, yet it would not work on the second Zuki.


Wayne
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'91 EFI, DD, Hardtop, A/C, Warn 8000 winch, 100 AMP Alt, Toy Celica P/S, TT YJ SPOA M/L, DT 8000 shocks, TT Knuckle Over Steering, Mighty Kong, 4:1 TC, Evil Twins, TT Full Skid, Diff Guards, Fuel Tank Skid, Sliders, Anti-Wrap Bar w/Axle Truss, Panhard Bar, Cooper SST - 30x9.5x15 , 8"x 2-1/2" BS wheels Maxima rear Disc w/ebrake, rear locker
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Offline Reddog1

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Re: bad ECM? no spark
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2008, 09:45:28 AM »
Quote from: ack on January 27, 2008, 05:37:36 AM

It also happens to be the electrical component that I replaced (not some grease monkey with a bassboat payment to make) in order to get my 1988 Samurai running again.

...but we are getting off-topic here.

I do not question that it is the component you replaced. I simply said the Igniter was not in the distributor, and it is not on my 1991. The CAS (Crank Angle Sensor) is in the distributor. RocksAuto calls it a Coil Distr Pick-up.

As for your "not some grease monkey with a bassboat payment to make" comment, if you save your money, you might afford a bassboat some day. If I have misunderstood your comment, I apoligize. I do agree that the bassboat comment is off topic.


Wayne
« Last Edit: January 27, 2008, 10:03:08 AM by Reddog1 »
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Offline Rhinoman

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Re: bad ECM? no spark
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2008, 12:32:32 PM »
Calm down chaps. The dizzy that Ack shows is the one fitted to non-EFI Samurais. - it has the pickup and igniter in the dizzy. The Sidekick has the igniter on the bulkhead.
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2000 Vitara 1.6, 3+3 Lift, 33"MTs, 5:83s, LWB brakes, Winch, Snorkel, Safari Rack
1986 SJ413K PickUp, 1.6L conversion.

OBD1 - Full diagnostics on a PC/Laptop: http://www.rhinopower.org
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Offline Reddog1

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Re: bad ECM? no spark
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2008, 12:41:03 PM »
Thanks again Rhinoman.  :)


Wayne
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'91 EFI, DD, Hardtop, A/C, Warn 8000 winch, 100 AMP Alt, Toy Celica P/S, TT YJ SPOA M/L, DT 8000 shocks, TT Knuckle Over Steering, Mighty Kong, 4:1 TC, Evil Twins, TT Full Skid, Diff Guards, Fuel Tank Skid, Sliders, Anti-Wrap Bar w/Axle Truss, Panhard Bar, Cooper SST - 30x9.5x15 , 8"x 2-1/2" BS wheels Maxima rear Disc w/ebrake, rear locker
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ricsrx

Re: bad ECM? no spark
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2008, 03:29:10 PM »
Ok that was interesting,any way I cant get on line on http://bbs.zuwharrie.com. They wont send an email to get me started.

Does any one have the email address for the dude who rebuilds the ECM's
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Offline SidekickMN

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Re: bad ECM? no spark
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2008, 03:42:04 PM »
you dont actually need an ecm i had one fail in my daily driver with help from my brother i ran a power wire for my spark ran and drove perfect without an ecm if you want i can get the details on how i did this.
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ricsrx

Re: bad ECM? no spark
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2008, 03:46:24 PM »
did you have EFI ? I am very interested!!!
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Offline ack

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Re: bad ECM? no spark
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2008, 03:52:56 PM »
Quote from: ricsrx on January 27, 2008, 03:29:10 PM
Ok that was interesting,any way I cant get on line on http://bbs.zuwharrie.com. They wont send an email to get me started.

Does any one have the email address for the dude who rebuilds the ECM's


Unfortunately, Surly does not show show his email address at Zuwharrie.com.  I can't locate another forum that he is a regular at right now...  Zuwharrie.com is a great source of info (right after ZukiWorld, of course!) so registering to contact Surly would be a worthwhile thing to do.

Thanks Rhinoman.. my jets are cooled.  Mostly.  Really!   ;)
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