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87 sami. No spark from coil. Anyone help?

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Offline daddyizzle

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87 sami. No spark from coil. Anyone help?
« on: June 11, 2006, 07:29:50 PM »
I'm baffelled. My son started it up my sami this afternoon to leave his work, and it died at the end of the parking lot when he stopped to wait for traffic to clear. It doesn't seem to be getting spark from the coil. I put in a new one and still no spark It appears to to be hooked up correctly. I have the weber and I don't know if any of those disconnected wires would have anything to do with it. I also checked the fuse under the dash. I don't know if this has an ecm and I don't know if it would cause a loss of spark. I thought maybe the ignition switch? Like I say, it turns over but No spark. The weber was installed over 8 months ago so I wouldn't think those wires would cause it but I do have a sensor light that has stayed on since, with the exception of an occasional flick off.  Any help appreciated. Thanks
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Offline Digger

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Re: 87 sami. No spark from coil. Anyone help?
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2006, 07:33:20 PM »
Did you try replacing the coil-to-distributor wire with a fresh one? I have heard of those going bad and causing what you are descibing...
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Offline daddyizzle

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Re: 87 sami. No spark from coil. Anyone help?
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2006, 07:54:08 PM »
I haven't but I will try putting a jumper there. I work nights and have to leave in about 15 minutes so I will try something so I don't have to get a ride in.
Thanks.
If all criminals were behind bars, there would be no one left to patrol the streets.

86 Samurai Tin-Top stock with a Harley 44 sidedraft carb

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Offline daddyizzle

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Re: 87 sami. No spark from coil. Anyone help?
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2006, 08:09:37 PM »
I'm sorry, I misunderstood you.  Yes I replaced the coil to distributor ignition wire. The only other thing I can think of that May factor in to this is that I replaced the speedo cable  about 12 days ago. Maybe I disturbed a wire under the dash, don't know. Is ther away to by pass the ignition switch and try to start it like the car thieves do. Without cutting all the wires. Either that or wire around under the hood to bypass and run power right to the coil. I suspect I am getting no power to the coil since it  is a new coil and still  produces no spark. At least I can't see or hear a spark when I hold the coil wire a little bit away from it. I  also held a couple of the other wires off the cap and tried cranking it. I did notice a fair amount of green residue at the connectors on top of the cap. I'm pretty sure I had replaced it along with the wires in the last year. but not sure.
If all criminals were behind bars, there would be no one left to patrol the streets.

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Offline daddyizzle

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Re: 87 sami. No spark from coil. Anyone help?
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2006, 06:10:53 AM »
I think I'm replying to my own message not sure, Worked all night so it's all I can do to handle a beer and the keyboard. Anyways, I was told by one of my more talented maintanance men  that the ignition control module must be bad or it jumped time. How can you tell if it jumped time?  I had the timing belt changed about 2 months ago and would like to think that my mechanic knew what he was doing since he primarily does work on 4x4s although not alot of sammis if any. 

The other question is, where is the ICM and what is the difference between an ICM and a ECM. Does the sami have both?
If all criminals were behind bars, there would be no one left to patrol the streets.

86 Samurai Tin-Top stock with a Harley 44 sidedraft carb

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Offline Rhinoman

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Re: 87 sami. No spark from coil. Anyone help?
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2006, 12:27:29 PM »
AFAIK there isn't an ICM on the sammy, its all built into the distributor unless its EFI. There should be a ground wire from the distributor to the firewall, this sometimes goes bad.
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Offline daddyizzle

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Re: 87 sami. No spark from coil. Anyone help?
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2006, 12:33:57 PM »
I tried jumping from terminal to terminal with a wire and alligator clips without success. There is a control module behind the glove compartment but I don't know if it would have anything to do with it. If so, can it be tested?
If all criminals were behind bars, there would be no one left to patrol the streets.

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Offline daddyizzle

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Re: 87 sami. No spark from coil. Maybe the ignitor assembly?
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2006, 03:24:58 PM »
Now I'm told that the ignitor assembly in the distributor may be bad. I don't know if that would cause the coil to not fire a spark. I'm not sure how it would affect it. So I wonder how you would test it without having to take it out. I sure don't want to throw too much money in parts only to find I replaced a part that wasn't bad.
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Offline msabmf

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Re: 87 sami. No spark from coil. Anyone help?
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2006, 06:52:33 PM »
you need to check for voltage at the coil poss side also check your points in the distributer (non elec ignition ) to see if they are opening they may be worn down
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Offline Rhinoman

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Re: 87 sami. No spark from coil. Anyone help?
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2006, 05:05:03 AM »
you need to check for voltage at the coil poss side also check your points in the distributer (non elec ignition ) to see if they are opening they may be worn down

Do any Sammys have points?
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Offline daddyizzle

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Re: 87 sami. No spark from coil. Anyone help?
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2006, 06:25:27 AM »
I believe its electronic ignition. I will check for vollts this afternoon. I was told that somehow the distributor, Via the ignitor assembly, tells the coil to energise and produce the spark. I don't understand how this could work but maybe it's true? I always thought that the coil energised and the distributor just took that energy and distributed the spark. ??? ???
If all criminals were behind bars, there would be no one left to patrol the streets.

86 Samurai Tin-Top stock with a Harley 44 sidedraft carb

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Offline daddyizzle

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Re: 87 sami. low input voltage. won't start. help?
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2006, 02:12:07 PM »
I put a voltmeter up to the coil input wires with the key on. no reading. I turned the motor over and got .24. I don't know exactly what this means as I am not an electrician. Is this ignitor in the distributor controlling whether or not the coil energizes or is there possibly a problem in the ignition switch itself?
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Offline dsumers

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Re: 87 sami. No spark from coil. Anyone help?
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2006, 02:56:41 PM »
You need to have battery voltage at positive side of coil key on.  If this is good, then hook up a test light alligator clip to positive side of battery and probe the negitive side of coil, while cranking engine, light should flash.  If light is not flashing, then your not geting the pulse (ground) from the pickup in the distributor.  The igniter/pickup coil in the distributer does the same thing electronically as a set of ignition points do provide a ground to the distributer so the field in the coil collapses causing the spark.

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Offline daddyizzle

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Re: 87 sami. No spark from coil. Anyone help?
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2006, 03:08:15 PM »
How do I check for the battery voltage  on the coil inputs with the key on. I thought I did by putting the pos probe to the pos side of coil and the neg probe to the neg side of the coil with key on. Is there a better way to check it. I had my voltmeter set for the 20 vdc and it read .24 the way I did it but I may have been doing it wrong.
If all criminals were behind bars, there would be no one left to patrol the streets.

86 Samurai Tin-Top stock with a Harley 44 sidedraft carb

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Offline daddyizzle

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update: Re: 87 sami. No spark from coil. low volt readings. Anyone help?
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2006, 04:00:01 PM »
I took the volt meter and hooked to the battery. 12.8 volts. I hooked to the pos and neg on the coil with ign on and it read 00. I turned the key and it went to around 1.5 volts.  I went from the pos on the battery to tne neg on the coil and turned the key. It hobbled between 2.8 and the low 3 volts. Maybe this tells somebody something.  Again I'm wondering if a bad ignitor would cause any of this. If not, shouldn't I have 12 volts at the coil with the key on prior to turning over the motor.? I don't even have the 12 volts at the coil with the motor turning over. Maybe this makes sense to someone. Maybe someone can take a voltmeter to their known good ignition system and see:

1  Coil input voltage with key on
2  Coil input voltage with motor turning
3  Pos on battery to neg on coil with key on
4  Pos on battery to neg on coil with motor turning
If all criminals were behind bars, there would be no one left to patrol the streets.

86 Samurai Tin-Top stock with a Harley 44 sidedraft carb