Hi everyone
I recently had a Lockright and 5.12 Vit centre installed in the rear and 5.12 Vit ring and pinion in the existing air actuated GV centre installed in the front of my 2003 GV.

Recently after a big hill climb the passenger side inner axle shaft popped out like an inch and I heard random occasional clunking. I popped the inner axle shaft back in and while it shows that 4x4 is engaged on the dash it doesn't seem to be turning the front wheels (they skip forward a bit with each clunk). There are no teeth on the sump plug magnet and with the car lifted the front diff sounds and works normally except for with 4x4 engaged you can still turn the wheels by hand even though the rear is on the ground. So it seems as though the air operated clutch is not engaging and the clunking is it skipping teeth?

Now I know, I should have gotten rid of the air actuated mechanism when I re-geared the front but I couldn't find a Vit steel carrier and I thought it would be OK as I had the mechanism inspected and all looked to be in good condition.

Don't really have time to fiddle at the moment since I have uni exams coming up and can drive it fine in RWD for now. So what I want to do is get it checked externally when the car goes in for a service to make sure it's not anything to do with the vac pump or solenoid, though I can hear it working so I doubt this is the case. Then when the holidays come if it's internal I thought I'd put in an ARB air locker up front and do a stubby shaft while I'm at it along with the manual hubs, this would eliminate the air operated 4WD system and hopefully make it more reliable plus give me added traction with the locker.

Now my question is; if I go down this road can I use my GV front diff carrier? So basically block off the air nipple, bolt the 5.12 ring gear to the locker and slap some bearings on it then put it in the steel GV carrier which has the 5.12 pinion already, set tooth contact and backlash and be good to go? Because steel Vit carriers are impossible to find and I don't want alloy. Or is this what everyone has been doing all along? The ARB application guide says use Vit third member but since the locker replaces the diff case with the cross-shafts, spider and side gears all as one unit you aren't really using the third member at all, just the carrier with the locker, and ring/pinion gears in it. Looking at some photos, the carriers for GV and Vit look identical except for the air mechanism. So why wouldn't it be easier to do this instead of tracking down a Vit steel carrier? Or is there some slight millimetre difference or some big piece of casting that's in the way and won't let you do this?

GV


Vit



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Since your issue developed, are you getting any flashing 4WD light on your dash indicating either your pump or actuator is no longer generating or holding air pressure?

If you aren't receiving the flashing dash light, I suppose it could be a problem with the internal cog gears or the side gears of your differential.

You didn't state whether you had a suspension lift on your truck or not and if so, how much of a lift?

Would a new ARB fit the OEM GV front differential carrier?  I doubt it, but that's a very good question.  There are some differences in width between the two differential carriers BECAUSE of the air actuator being built into the newer diff.  When you swap out the newer diff and replace it with a 1st gen diff, it normally requires a different inner axle from the older 1st gen truck, which is about 3/8ths (9.5mm) of an inch shorter.

The best advise I could provide is for you to actually have measurements taken of the differences between the two diffs as in, the actual width between the trunion yokes of the two diffs. 

 

Nope, no flashing that I've seen.

Yes, 4xfourart extreme 3 inch lift which includes diff drop brackets - had this setup for over 2 years and never an issue before now.

I am aware that the inner axle is shorter but did you know that the driver's side CV stub is also longer by what looks like about the same amount? The reason for this is that everything gets moved over to make room for the air mechanism. However, the external casting looks the same, with the same bolt pattern, the gears are interchangeable and the distance between the trunnion yokes looks the same. If these observations are correct that means the ring gear is in the same position in both otherwise the teeth would not mesh - I also have a 5.12 Vit ring and pinion in my original GV third member which partially confirms this. I think that the only reason the inner axle and CV stub are different is because the air mechanism forces the side gear on the passenger side towards the drivers side and then there is a cross shaft which forces the drivers side gear out also, this is INSIDE the diff case though and I think the external dimensions are the same. But with the ring gear and trunnion yokes in the same position and the air mechanism out it MUST be possible to put a Vit diff case (or locker) in this position, and the Vit inner axle and CV stub will just match up with the newly positioned (more towards the passenger side) side gears as they do in the Vit. It's almost as if the GV front diff case is just squashed to make room for the air mechanism. Why else would the third members be interchangeable? From a manufacturing point of view this makes more sense. Why redesign the whole front diff when you can just tweak the existing setup and re-use most of the same parts?

The Protrack locker install photos also support this concept. You can see on their website that only a small amount of grinding is required.
Greek
http://protrack.gr/proionta/suzuki/adm-menu/grand-vitara/99-front-air-locker-grand-vitara.html
English translation
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fprotrack.gr%2Fproionta%2Fsuzuki%2Fadm-menu%2Fgrand-vitara%2F99-front-air-locker-grand-vitara.html&edit-text=&act=url&act=url

Finally, I do have a spare alloy GV and Vit centre packaged and stored neatly in my grandma's shed, will have to bust them out and do some measurements after exams.


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It stands to reason they could be the same.  The same diff rebuild kit (ring, pinion bearings and seal, shims) for the 1st gen works on the 2nd gen diffs.  So, at least there is standardization across many years in diameters and clearances on those parts.  Suzuki is pretty good about standardizing some mechanical parts between designs.  Then every once in a while they throw a curve.

Let us know how that turns out.  It will be interesting to hear the outcome.

Should easy enough to measure and compare the inside width of both with a pair of calipers.

Ok. I went and got my boxes of diff parts and quickly slapped together a diff. Mismatched ring and pinion gear and sloppy as a gypsy camp but it spins and is good enough for a proof of concept. I can confirm that the Vit diff case will fit in a GV steel housing - so no need to go looking for a steel Vit diff centre - not even sure they exist tbh and if they do they're like unicorns. I can also confirm that the Vit and GV carriers look identical except for the little bit of casting for the air line fitting. External length is the same, distance between trunnion yokes is the same, trunnion yokes are the same thickness, bearing caps are the same except for the one on the air mechanism side of the GV diff having an extra bit of casting to bolt on the air mechanism - once this is removed though they are all the same as the extra casting doesn't interfere with anything. Diff cases between GV and Vit are also the same width and locate the ring gear in the same place.

Here are some photos:

Diff cases side by side:



Bearing caps:


Vit diff case and ring gear in GV carrier:






So now I'm going to order my ARB RD208 air locker quoted at $1044AUD and get it fitted, along with some manual hubs and Vit inner axle shaft and Vit stubby shaft - as the side gears get offset about 10mm inside the diff case by the air centre it is apparently necessary to use Vit inner axle and to make a stubby shaft out of a Vit CV stub.

I also realise I used an alloy GV carrier here - didn't have a spare steel but if it fits one then it will fit the other as the cases and air mechanisms were the same.


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Thanks a million for the time & effort that has gone into this research.

Yes, thank you much for posting up this info and the comparison.  There are always fine areas that haven't been discussed in depth or no one has actually followed up with physical comparisons.  This is one of them.

Please keep us updated on your ARB install.

Ordering from Aus. for $1044 AUD are you saving much on shipping?  Synergy Offroad has them for $918 USD, so w/o shipping $150 USD more.
Interesting, I went to 4 Wheel Parts and they were listed $940 but have a matching price, so going to matching price page they have the RD208 listed at $1232 but do offer a matching price.  There are 4 Wheel Parts close to me, but many shops do offer matching price on parts.
When you run the air line, it DOES NOT like heat.  100 psi and a little heat will cause it to blow out.  They have pricey braided SS line for extreme use, or slipping fuel or even vacuum hose over it for insulation works.  Also all fittings are British Pipe Threads, and 5 mm tubing is hard to find.  Do Not expect to find 5 mm tubing in Moab during EJS, as a lot of wheelers find out that slow crawling may raise engine compartment temperatures enough to cause blow outs on the air line.  Once ARB sets up their tent, there is an adequate supply of 5 mm hose.

No worries guys, will keep you updated.

I wouldn't know about shipping since I'm in Australia so I just rang my local ARB dealer - 10 min drive from my house - and the quote they gave me was by far the cheapest compared to anything online. Also nice to have local support if anything goes wrong. I guess it's cheaper because they're designed and manufactured here?

No worries about the 5mm air line - plenty of BPT fittings available here in AUS so I'll either buy new fittings and use similar diameter push lock hose instead or I'll just sleeve it like you say. My air line from compressor to air tank in the back runs along the chassis rail and it's not too close to the engine so if I run parallel with that it should be ok.


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So what was the outcome with the locker? Thank you very much for posting pics with your earlier findings as well, makes it alot easier to understand what people are always talking about!

Also, can you clarify exactly what your setup is now, from hub to hub so we get the whole picture? I'm having a tough time determining which CV's and 3-bolt shaft I'm supposed to run if I want to mount a regular 5.13 Sidekick (UK/AUS Vitara) differential case & gears on my steel XL7 3rd member.

Edit; I think after alot of research, I've figured it out, from driver's side to passenger side (in the North American market)

Manual hub->XL7/GV left CV->Sidekick inner 3-bolt shaft->steel housing with Sidekick differential installed into steel XL7/GV 3rd member->Sidekick Sport right CV or hybrid of a Sidekick inner stub + GV/XL7 shaft and outer joint->manual hub